The Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki Museum: An interview with the Director

By Charles Flowers

What makes a great museum? What brings the past to life, educates and entertains children and their parents, attracts tourists and pays for itself in admissions and "spin-off" business to neighboring attractions?

Billy L. Cypress, the Executive Director of the Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki Museum at Big Cypress, has done more than study these questions. For the past eight years, he has been directly involved with decisions he hopes will make the "mother of Seminole museums" one of the great Native American storehouses as well as a teacher of Seminole history and culture.

Cypress was raised in a Seminole Camp at Palm Hammock along the Tamiami Trail. Many of his fondest childhood memories are of Smallwood's Trading Post in Chokoloskee, a gathering place for Seminoles who came out of the Everglades to trade. His grandmother, Billie Tommie Jumper, was revered for her skill in making baskets from split-palmetto leaves, a craft which is represented at Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki.

As an adult, Cypress worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs in Washington, D.C. He took a particular interest in the museums and monuments in and around the Nation's Capital, and spent many hours roaming through Arlington National Cemetery.

One month before the museum opening, surrounded by mannequins and artifacts, Billy Cypress spoke to reporter Charles Flowers about the long and winding road that led to Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki, "a place to learn."

CF: How would you translate Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki?

Cypress: It's a Miccosukee word - it's not Creek. As a verb, it means "to learn." It's like going to school. It's a place where if you don't know something, you go there to find out.

Hopefully, what this means is the Seminoles have lost their culture, or they're beginning to lose their culture. Nobody remembers the stories anymore. Nobody remembers how they were dressed 150 years ago. So it's a place to go back to learn. But it's not just the past. We also like to discuss the future, too. In other words, we're not going to just stay in the past.

CF: So let me learn a little bit. For instance, there were some choices made that are interesting to me. For instance, why here? Why is the museum here in Big Cypress?

Cypress: The short answer is because one of the greatest chiefs, known as Sam Jones (Abiaka), is buried not far from here. Nobody knows exactly where. But he was buried two or three miles from here. That's one of the reasons (Seminole Chairman) James Billie says the museum should be here.

Another reason is that we don't have any land any more in Hollywood. Believe it or not, Hollywood was at one time a pristine hammock, with hundreds of oak trees, rattlesnakes and everything. It was bulldozed and now you don't have that any more. You still see remnants of what it used to look like. But it doesn't look like it did 50 years ago.

So, here you can look around you, we've got 70,000 acres (the museum is on a 60-acre cypress dome). We have the land, we have the space. You can look out and see the foliage, the plants. So we wanted to put it right here.

The other thing is logistics. We also hoped to pull a lot of people off I-75 (Alligator Alley). When we started, I-75 wasn't four-laned. We knew they were working on it. Now it's fixed. We did some studies years ago, and hopefully we can still pull some people off I-75, a lot of tourists, a lot of traffic, to come here and see us.

We also have a map that shows if you put a point in South Florida and draw concentric circles - 50 miles, 100 miles, 150 miles. People think we're in the middle of nowhere, but it all depends on how you look at it. We're in the middle of everything. We're about 60 miles from Naples, about 70 to Fort Lauderdale and Fort Myers, maybe 90 to Miami and West Palm.

CF: And you figure you'll draw from all those cities?

Cypress: Yeah. The museum's for everybody. For tourists from Germany and everywhere, and our own Tribal members. We also like to concentrate on school systems. Of course, we'd like to have all 67 counties in Florida come visit us. But we figure that we'll draw from the counties that are closest to us: Hendry and Broward and Collier, Lee, Glades, Okeechobee and Palm Beach, Dade and Monroe counties.

All of these school buses have only a certain amount of time to drive here and return in time for the school day to end. They start at 8 o'clock and have to return by 3 p.m.

CF: Is there a place here on the grounds for them to eat?

Cypress: Originally, we had a little dining room. But we didn't really want to go heavily into the restaurant business. That's a tough business, that's a whole operation in iteslf. Building 3 (not yet constructed) has space set aside for dining. But that's kind of in the future yet. We wanted to keep it very simple: vending machines, snacks, rather than the Swamp Water Cafe, which is a full-service cafeteria.

So what we're going to do is, we have a pavilion out here. There is a concession stand for drinks. When we work with school groups, most of them pack their own lunches. We will have picnic tables and places for them to eat lunch. That's how we're structured for the moment. Those people who don't pack lunches can always go to Billie Swamp Safari. The two are fairly complementary. They can come here in the morning, see us, and then go to the Swamp Safari, have lunch and spend the rest of the day over there.

CF: I see cost figures for each of these buildings. When you add them all up, what's the whole deal?

Cypress: When we started, back in 1989, we were talking $10 million. Now, we found out as time goes on, costs go up. I'm not sure what the final tab will be when we finish. But it will probably be more than $10 million.

This building here in 1989 was estimated at $1 million. By the time we got around to doing the architecture, we talked about the architecture for several years. Most people can do it quicker. We had a special situation where we wanted to make sure that everything was correct. And it took us a couple of years just to do that.

By the time we got around to it, with Hurricane Andrew thrown in - when Hurricane Andrew came (in August 1992), some materials went up also. So the costs doubled. This building is a little over $2 million. I'm not sure where the costs are - probably materials, mainly. I don't know about peoples' time, construction costs. We're talking about fair market value.

The other problem we have here is this place is isolated, and we have to attract and recruit companies that want to come out here. Especially after 1992 when the hurricane leveled South Miami, there was work for all those construction people, so they'd rather go over there. But we were able to attract some people from Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, all around that wanted to come here and do the work for us. So we had that special problem drawing people. Some people would rather stay in town. It's less costly, less gas, they don't want to come out here. But the people we drew did that. So maybe that's where some of the cost came in. But we go through regular bidding, regular rules of construction.

CF: I wanted to talk to you about "Repatriation" that means giving back to tribes artifacts somebody may have collected?

Cypress: All museums in the country collected, either legimately or illegimately, human remains, anything religious, or even went out and dug - back in the old days. It's real sensitive now, there are laws to protect people from robbing graves and mounds. But that's been done in the last several hundred years. So museums have them all over the country.

That's the law that tried to right the wrong if there was one to Native Americans. If there was a tie - this is a whole new law in itself - from one Tribe to an artifact they can legitimately get their item back.

CF: If they become an accredited museum, right?

Cypress: No. Any Indian tribe, or any person, can get an artifact from the Smithsonian, or any museum in the country. You don't have to be a museum to accept those things. But if you're talking about us, we're not a person or a tribe. We are a museum. If anybody wants to give us anything, we can accept it. But the laws were not for museums - another museum getting something from a museum. But for Indian persons and Indian tribes receiving remains and artifacts from museums that receive federal monies. Now private museums, the laws don't affect them.

CF: How many other facilities like this are there in Indian Country?

Cypress: I don't know how many there are but there are more than there used to be. About 20 or 30 years ago, a few people like the Cherokees had a museum and there were several other museums here and there. But today I think more Indian tribes are getting into museums or cultural centers. A lot of it has has been helped by gaming or bingo. Twenty or 30 years ago, a lot of tribes wanted to do things but they didn't have any money. So I'm not saying that gaming has unilaterally put money in the hands of tribes, but a lot of tribes when they get into a little money, they get into what they want to do. So museums have been one of those things that they've done. The Mashantucket Pequots are building a really big one (set to open in June 1998). Of course, gaming is helping them do that. We're're building one. Tunica Biloxis have one. And there are some older museums that started way back when with very little funds, some good ones that are still around. More and more I hear it's kind of mushrooming around the country. A lot of it's happening. Helped by gaming, or some other income the tribes are getting.

CF: What would you say is the most striking, or most memorable, or most impressive item in the collection here?

Cypress: We were able to secure a lot of nice things in the last few years. But one of them that comes to mind is a portrait of Osceola which we just bought. The reason it is really striking is that there is only five of them in existence. Osceola was captured and sent to St. Augustine. He was then put on a ship and sent to Charleston, South Carolina - Fort Moultrie - and that is where he died. And he was there only like 30 days. But during that time he was a famous prisoner. People visited him, and artists came and painted him. The most famous probably is Catlin. But there is another one which is even better by Curtis, who came in before Catlin and probably saw Osceola a little bit healthier before he deteriorated. Later Catlin came but at that time he (Osceola) was pretty sickly. But we have one of only five in existence that Curtis painted.

CF: When will that be exhibited?

Cypress: It will be exhibited at the proper time. You try to have a unifying theme. Right now what we have there is 1890s. Everything out here is a particular point in time. We're showing 1890s.

CF: Why was that period chosen?

Cypress: Because that was a time where we still had our culture, but we were beginning to change. So, some of the period pictures you see we've still got the old buckskin. Some of the people still carry rifles. Nobody carries rifles any more. But back then, the war had ended in 1858. So 1890, was only like 32 years, the war was a distant memory, but still something that had happened relatively recently. In 1890-1900, it's kind of like a transition period. After 1900, we started moving into the modern era, and we dropped all of the buckskin and everything else. It's kind of like a bridge from the 1800's to the 1900's. And we have more information during that period. A lot of pictures and things. It's pregnant with information, more information than in years past.

Then if you move past that, you get into the modern period. But we wanted to show a particular period where we still have our culture, and we're kind of like one foot in the 19th Century and one foot in the 20th Century.

CF: You mentioned the Osceola paintings. And I've seen Pat Wickman's book (Osceola's Legacy). There are many, many artifacts of Osceola - his clothes, his rifles, various items. But not so much for Abiaka. I went to the dedication of the sculpture of Abiaka at Tree Tops Park in Broward County, and they were talking about that, how there were no images of Abiaka. No one could exactly say what he looked like. There was maybe a little sketch somebody had made. Is it possible the Museum might be able to uncover or find more evidence of his life, more physical evidence of his life, at some point in the future?

Cypress: No, I don't think so. The reason that you don't know much about Abiaka is he wanted it that way. Everybody knows about Osceola and the leaders who were up front. I'm not saying they were not important. But there are powers behind the throne. I'm not saying they're the true leaders, because Osceola was a leader as much as Abiaka. But Abiaka purposely stayed in the background. That's why he didn't get captured. He sent other people to conferences, delegations, and they got captured. But Abiaka lived through all the wars, most of the 19th Century, and he was never captured. That's why you never see any pictures. He never allowed himself to be painted. I've heard of this little sketch that some doctor did in Fort Lauderdale. We don't even know if that's his true likeness. But if it is, that's the only thing we have.

What we did with the statue was, you know how some people say, "That kid is the spitting image of his grandfather." Right? OK, Abiaka lived a long time ago. But in another sense, he only lived yesterday. We still have their grandsons and great-grandsons running around. And some of them were living on the Brighton Reservation. There was a guy named Sam Jones and other people over there, and some other people and we took their pictures. And even though we don't know what Abiaka looked like, we took a composite picture of his grandsons. We have them. They were around in the 1950s and 1960s. They're all dead now. But we figured that was as close as you're going to get to what he looked like.

Other artists have painted him and made him look like a real resolute old guy, sticking his thumb at the army towards the end, that sort of thing. But the reason he did that is it was planned that way. He was a real leader, a medicine man, and he wanted to stay back. When you're fighting the army, you don't want to tell them anything. That's intelligence. I'm pretty sure that happened in the Vietnam War. There were people behind the throne that you never heard anything about, because they didn't want you to hear anything about them.

CF: Now, a lot of kids are going to come through here. And if you were a boy, maybe 10-12 years old and you came through here with your buddies or kids from school, what do you think would make the biggest impression on you? What do you think you would be talking about on the school bus back to Miami or Naples or wherever?

Cypress: If I were a Seminole, or a non-Indian?

CF: Either way.

Cypress: What you would see here is clothing, first of all. There are books in the libraries where people could browse through them and see the hairstyles and clothing of the 1890s. But here we have the largest collection where we will have hopefully 48 mannequins with life-size faces. We didn't want just any faces. We took pictures of Tribal members, because we wanted them to look like Seminoles. Not like somebody else around the world. So for the first time in one place you would see people from the turn of the century, dancing and telling stories, hunting with period clothing. They don't come alive, but in your imagination they probably come alive. That's the whole idea. These people lived, and you're able to see a pretty accurate portrayal of them. That would be striking.

CF: One thing that occurred to me in looking at the film (We Seminoles) was that most of our images, most of the movies and so forth that we've seen that involved conflict with Indians and whites were shot from the white person's point of view. You don't have a camera seeing the Battle of Okeechobee from the perspective of the Indians. You have a camera turned the other way and seeing the Battle of Okeechobee, or the Battle of Little Bighorn - any of the films that involved any conflict - from that point of view. And I think kids like to see fights. I think kids will remember that, when they see that movie, and when they see the guns pointed at them and hear the boom, they'll remember that. That will make an impression. But I don't think that they've seen it very often from an Indian point of view.

Cypress: Yeah, I don't know if we've succeeded, but that's what's we tried to do. One of the reasons why we have a museum is that people have done a lot of history about us, museums all over Florida and elsewhere. They've done shows on us, they've had some really great exhibits. But this museum here is our own and we're doing it. Of course, it's not all Seminoles. We do have some non-Indian professionals to help us. But we try to do it from our perspective, telling our story. We don't always succeed, but that's always our intent - to show that we the Seminoles, this is our story. This is what we were, and this is how we are, and this is why we are here today and what we're doing. We try to purvey that in the 17-minute film. And the people from Abi Productions were pretty good in following our lead. We told them conceptually what we'd like to see, and what we'd like to have in it and they went out and I think they pretty well succeeded. I sure hope that Seminoles and other people like it. Especially Seminoles, because it's talking about them.

We had a choice of doing a little sideshow or a little film. When you first come in here, we wanted it to show the wide expanse of Seminoles. We spent more money ($300,000) doing that, but I think the result is impressive. Also, we were dealing with five screens so it's like making five movies all at once at the same time.

CF: You talk about the Museum as being evolving. This building is the heart of it, the exhibits that you'll have when you open will be what people will experience. But down the road they'll be able to experience more art, when the galleries open. They'll be able to experience more artifacts, as an archivist is hired. How do see that picture filling in?

Cypress: I was quoted as saying a couple weeks ago I'll be happy if we can complete it all in the next 10 years. I'll repeat it here. In 1989, somebody had put together an excellent plan which we're still following. They had a five-year plan which it took me - maybe I'm slow, I don't know - but it took me eight years to get this done. But we've got the infrastructure, the boardwalk, the camp... everything's in place so that you can add Building 3, Building 4. So I'd be happy if we can get that done in the next five or 10 years.

One of the problems we've had is the Tribe is the biggest footer of the bill. But we're structured like any other museum business, and we're supposed to be going out and getting grants from foundations and the federal government, which is dwindling, as you know. So a lot of it has to do with funding. If the funding is right there when you need it, then you can put that building right up. But if you're ready and the funding's not there, then you have to wait. So it's a matter of juggling and managing. But I'm glad that we've got this building, the foundation, done. Now we can go out and add the others as we go along.

CF: Operationally, once you start opening the door and letting people in and they start paying admission, will the Museum generate any income that will enable it to expand?

Cypress: I would like to see that. However, we won't know until we open the doors. People tell me that museums never become completely independent. Most of them still have to be subsidized. Nothing would make me happier than for us to make our way, not be dependent on the Tribe or anybody else. This is why we don't want to be real showy, have a dog and pony show, but we want to be attractive enough so that people will come and see us. We build a reputation so that people will say, "Let's go see Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki Museum" on their way to or from Disney World.

CF: What kind of hours will you be open? Will you be open every day of the year?

Cypress: Our opening hours will be Tuesday through Sunday, closed on Monday. Some holidays - like Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Year's - we will also close. We're following the Tribe's lead. But we're also trying to figure out as a museum which days should we be open while everybody else is closed. We'll probably be closed on most holidays.

CF: Is that tourist interest broadly across Europe? Could we at some point see Japanese tourists here, and English, French, Spanish, Italian and so forth coming here?

Cypress: We hope to attract international tourists. That's not to ignore our own people here in Florida and Northerners who come down here. But there's so many people from Germany, England and other European countries that come to Florida, particularly to go to Disney World, but they also want to see other things. They want to see culture, they're interested in Native Americans. The other thing is cultural tourism and eco-tourism. That's also a coming thing. So we're right in there with Billie Swamp Safari . . . A lot of these European people are interested in ecology. That's why we have the boardwalk through a cypress dome. They can go out there and see the plants. I realize a lot of people have the same things. Everglades National Park, and Corkscrew Swamp between Immokalee and Naples. But we want to become part of the eco-tourism industry growth.

Although we never forget we're a history museum. We're not a natural history museum. We're not into alligators, panthers and bears. Billie Swamp Safari does that. That's where we complement each other. Here we're strong on history, and to a certain extent, the environment. History and the environment. That's what we do here.

CF: At the end of this year, you'll have been open about four months. What would you consider success to be at that point?

Cypress: We have a capacity of 700 here. We don't have to have 700 all the time. But if we have a steady stream of people who are interested in Seminole history, if schools come and other people come, that's one success in the short run. However, financially, that's too short a time to consider. I hope that will carry over into next year and not let up. That's one parameter. That's from the tourism and money side of things.

The other side is that the Seminoles - which we shouldn't forget that this Museum is for two people: Seminoles and outsiders, that covers everybody in the world. Seminoles and outsiders. The Seminoles themselves, this is their place. That's why it's called "to learn." Other people come to learn about us. Well, we're here to learn about ourselves. We don't know everything about ourselves. So, if they feel like this is their museum, if they feel comfortable and they can come here and we can run classes for them, anything they want to know about their culture, then we will also be a success from that standpoint.

CF: With that in mind, is there an organized effort to get all the Seminoles from all the reservations out here? Will there be, once the Museum is open?

Cypress: I hope so. That's something we need to do. It is their Tribal museum. Because it's located here at Big Cypress, I hope some people won't say, "Well, that's the Big Cypress Museum. We want our own." We do have three museums. We look at this one as the mother museum. Then we have the old museum in Tampa which we're still responsible for. And Hollywood is refurbishing, renovating and will be opening up pretty soon the Seminole Okalee Indian Village. And there is a museum component to the village and they've asked us to run that part. So now we've got three. I sure hope people will use us. Some people say you can hype yourself up. Or, you saw the movie, Field of Dreams. "If you build it, they will come." I sure hope they will.

Charles Flowers is a freelance writer based in Ft. Lauderdale.